Feud’s Chris Chalk on playing Baldwin vs Capote and making it look easy

James Baldwin is, to put it mildly, foundational. Oft-quoted and adapted across media, Baldwin’s work inactive forms the spine of our modern knowing of racial and sexual liberation, yet — possibly out of reverence — he’s seldom been portrayed dramatically on-screen. Chris Chalk, in another words, had monumental shoes to fill in portraying the beloved writer, who, as a well-documented orator, many Americans are intimately acquainted with. Chalk takes on the challenge with aplomb, giving a scene-stealing turn in this week’s episode of Feud: Capote vs. The Swans.

In the episode, titled “The Secret interior Lives of Swans,” Chalk’s Baldwin visits Truman Capote (Tom Hollander) to shake the author out of his near-suicidal malaise following the publication of Capote’s essay exposing the scandals of his socialite friends. The 2 spend a day roaming fresh York having a wide-ranging conversation cutting at the core of Feud’s themes: the shallow performances of the wealthy, the thinly veiled racism and bigotry underpinning advanced society, and the artist’s work in portraying them.

Sitting down for a Zoom conversation with Polygon, Chalk — an exuberant and loquacious presence — contemplated quite a few the same things, talking about Baldwin’s legacy and imagined tension between both literary giants.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Polygon: I know erstwhile the casting was announced you said you’d always wanted to represent Baldwin. He’s individual we haven’t truly seen on screen in a professional context much. Did that make your occupation harder, easier? Is there anything you wanted to accomplish with this small time you have?

Chris Chalk: I don’t think it was harder or easier that no 1 else has played him. I think that I took in that as the gravity of how crucial it was. I think that he’s a individual that people don’t toy with. 1 of the things I panicked about — not panic, I’m being hyperbolic — but the thing that was stressing me was, the made-up stress, was like: Nobody touches him and everyone likes him. During his time — he was, you know, an openly gay, effeminate Black man — he couldn’t be the biggest part of the Black Power movement. So he’s off in Paris, but everyone inactive liked him. And we like him even more and more present as we become a kinder society that’s going, Oh my god, this guy had so many good points. And we weren’t listening even then. He continues to be a teacher.

So, yeah, man; tons of pressure, tons of excitement, tons of, like — it’s not a test, but seeing how, with the time I’m blessed with, how well can I embody this man whom I so adore, without being in specified adoration that I make him non-human? You know what I mean? And that was the beauty of this chance is, not besides much time so that I couldn’t get besides in my head. And with large support comes this amazing iteration of this man we all love.

The way that you smoke — was that lifted from him or was that you?

Everything! Everything — I did my very best to do the way that James would do it. So anything that he physically did, I would. I looked through clips — [and] he’s going to be very different with Capote than he’s going to be with Maya Angelou, due to the fact that there’s a sisterhood almost. With Black women he relaxes in a completely different way. erstwhile he’s in white spaces he’s a different way, erstwhile he’s in queer spaces — he’s not presenting himself differently, there’s just different freedoms. So I did my very best to find him in all single environment in order to not mimic it but honor it to the best of my abilities.

I do want to talk to you a small bit about working with Tom Hollander, due to the fact that he does something very hard for an actor, which is to give a very giving performance, to receive while you come in as Baldwin. You are both playing characters who have been very well documented on camera with very peculiar mannerisms or well-known mannerisms. How do you calibrate for something like that?

Well, the beauty is we both are theatre people. So as far as my training: That’s the gig. The gig is uncovering myself in any another character, the gig is doing any physicality, the gig is doing any vocal work. And utilizing whatever means essential to honor the character’s point of view and their drive.

With James, it’s like you’re saying, one, we’ve known him for wide age groups, too. So any of that was working with Jerome to isolate the age, to isolate the tones and the tonality we wanted to do, working with the movement coach, it was isolating the movements, due to the fact that he definitely got kind of heavier, and a small bit droopy, or as he got older and a small bit more folded forward, as 1 might typing over a desk long-term.

With that kind of support it’s truly easy to walk into any character. But any of the beauty of James is: It’s truly specific. So as long as I do the work, put in my two, 3 hours a day of looking for it in me, at least I will be honoring who he is.

And it’s cool to see him just interact with Capote! The episode to me felt like kind of an argument between the 2 men about what Capote’s work does. There’s this incredible line where he calls Capote a thesaurus of American nausea, among another things. Do you think the 2 men agree about what Capote’s doing?

No! No, no, no — I think that’s why James is needed. due to the fact that Capote is trapped between the glitter and glamour, and his moral work to be the elite storyteller that he is. I think they share a akin point of view. But Capote, you know, he indulges — I mean, James is simply a drinker and a smoker, too. But he was always heavy focused on what needed to be done, he would isolate, go off [to] this snowy winter place erstwhile he’s like, I’m serious, I’m going to write. He goes and he isolates, whereas Truman, you know, is throwing them back and he wants to truly be accepted — which is not his job. His occupation is not to be accepted by the Swans, but to uncover them and to uncover to us this thing that we’re worshipping, showing us the fact about it.

I mean, if they agreed it would be the most boring scene in the world. But due to the fact that James comes in, and through various tactics — I mean, I think he starts with a alternatively soft of, like, Oh, this is so cute. Oh, this is nice. And then by the end he’s like, Get up off your ass. And do you a job, I’m so sick of this game, we’ve been playing this game, you weren’t truly listening. And now I’m going to tell you precisely what you request to do. And I think that’s kind of the penultimate minute that it takes that much to shake Capote out of this, his being mesmerized by the fear of losing what is not important. I think James is truly trying to focus on what is important. And you will be the star you always want it to be as opposed to just being welcomed as their small dog getting the, you know, a small tray of food. But what is that really?

Image: FX

And it’s specified a large episode due to the fact that to me it doesn’t seem like Baldwin has a single motivation; there’s quite a few things going through his head in the scene. Part of it is morbid curiosity, right?

Like, what are they doing? due to the fact that who knows in this world, this reality that Ryan and John have created? possibly James is wanting to, like, You told me enough, I’ll do it myself. possibly part of it is like, You’re my investigation into this world, due to the fact that these people will never let me into their world.

So yeah, I think there’s a curiosity. And then as James sees the state that Truman’s in, it’s comparing his state to his ability and being like, Wake up, man, wake up, you are there. You’re in the mediate of what could be your top contribution to society, and you’re pumping the brakes. Come on, buddy.

And as he says: There’s a commonality between the 2 men. Where they’re members of a very tiny club, right? The gay men of letters.

And there’s work to that club! We tell these stories. We honor our sexuality, and we don’t hide — we do not hide, sir. And he’s hiding. You know, [Baldwin] kind of mocks him, like: No, sweetie. You’re not gonna scare me. You’re not gonna throw me off my game. I’m here to fix you. Whatever this is, Don’t get it twisted. I’m here to fix you — or guide you, or hope to wake you up.

That’s kind of the fun of the energy Baldwin brings, due to the fact that he’s always an intense thinker and a powerful speaker; that’s what he’s been known for. But he comes to this episode, from a place of I know what these people truly are. And you’re just uncovering out now. The thing I find compelling about Baldwin coming to this — and besides the Capote communicative within the wider arc of the show, right, due to the fact that you’re coming midstream here — is how both of these men operate in these rarefied spaces where they will tolerate them as long as they behave. And erstwhile they get out of line, you know, the prejudice is big, buddy.

Yeah there’s rules of behavior. I mean, not that it’s different now! To be honest. But like, these 2 gay dudes are still alive, first off, miraculously. And so to be so bold, it makes sense that Truman’s afraid. Like he’s in the lap of luxury. Like of course, I don’t want to lose that. But these are besides people who vanish people. These aren’t good people that I’m messing with here.

Part of the conflict for me in reviewing the show, writing about it, is convincing people at a time there’s a well-earned exhaustion and disgust at the planet of the white and wealthy, episodes like this 1 are ones where I want to catch you and be like, You see? This is why!

This is why! I do think, what a clever thing to have done, right? It seems as if you’re celebrating these people who were equally large as they were awful. And then they flip it; with this episode they go, It’s white people stuff, right? This is any rich, white, elitism, mean people stuff, and it’s your occupation to halt trying to be like them. But to exposure them. I love the way it’s written. I love that this episode shakes the audience and goes, What are you looking at? What did you come here for? We tricked you. Now you’ve got to deal with: These are just people. These are people with so much power that they can do things that they shouldn’t do.

If there’s a takeaway you want people to have from this show, from this episode, what about it felt vital to represent this man and tell this communicative now?

I effort not to concern myself with what the audience takes away, but this 1 is somewhat different. due to the fact that I do think we are in dire request of letting, like, choosing our leaders more wisely, and choosing our spokespeople more wisely. There’s so much noise, and so many people talking — and on specified a large scale with the Instagrams, and the TikToks, and the social media — that we should be a lot more selective about who we’re asking to do what.

If we’re trying to evolve morally and intellectually and spiritually as a society, possibly we should perceive stronger to those voices. We do all of this honorific. Oh, James said this. MLK said this, Gandhi said this — but people are saying it now. But we, for any reason, don’t honor them as much. I’ve frequently seen them demonized for having the exact same position as individual who’s been dead for 50 years. So if we could take distant that we’ve got any James Baldwins right now. If we’re willing to do the work of educating ourselves a bit more, and being willing to be susceptible adequate to be corrected, then we could truly advance in a much [better] way than it seems like we’re advancing right now.

When Capote and Baldwin decision into the bar, that’s where I think their dynamic takes their most compelling turn for me. due to the fact that you see kind of a model for intelligent discourse where you can respect each other. But they admit that they’ve called each other’s ideas bullshit. And you don’t truly see in the real planet — you see it more in art, which is large — but like, 2 smart people just going at it and just uproariously disagreeing.

Isn’t it something beautiful to inactive respect individual due to the fact that they’ve done quite a few work to have that point of view? And so it’s OK that we disagree, and it’s OK that you think I’m bullshit — I think you’re bullshit, in any ways. But the assurance we can learn from this is the assurance to own it. And know that we’re not going to agree on everything. And any of my things that I disagree with you on will hurt your feelings. But I don’t mean no harm. It’s just my life led me to think this, and I’m super open to proceeding what you think due to the fact that I trust that you’re a smart dude. And possibly together, we can come up with any kind of universal thought. I mean, what a set of brave dudes — and imagine erstwhile they were doing it! You’re getting executed, you’re getting disappeared very, very easily. And if they can do it, man, what the hell are we waiting for, eh?

Feud: Capote vs. The Swans airs fresh episodes all Thursday on FX and Hulu.